No Scope Creep - Revision history

Mỉ Mỉao ga Nhäqpy: Use {{proposal}} template

2025-08-24T17:47:55Z

Use {{proposal}} template

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:47, 24 August 2025
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	'''No Scope Creep''' is a proposal to remove the [[Scope#Scope creep\|scope creep]] effect from the language.		'''No Scope Creep''' is a {{proposal}} to remove the [[Scope#Scope creep\|scope creep]] effect from the language.

	<code>THE PROPOSAL:</code> Just remove it.		<code>THE PROPOSAL:</code> Just remove it.
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	== Why not ==		== Why not ==
	[https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/334810940392341514/945302821178310736 uakci says:]<blockquote>i think, in fact, that serials being "unitary" verbs that don't radiate semantics outwards across the whole sentence is a huge advantage</blockquote>Maybe it is an advantage? But consider that even non-serial verbs can already radiate side effects: some can be undefined on certain inputs, some can create questions, and some (individual-level predicates) might even take scope. With that in mind, it's not a stretch to imagine that serials could take scope, too.		[https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/334810940392341514/945302821178310736 uakci says:]<blockquote>i think, in fact, that serials being "unitary" verbs that don't radiate semantics outwards across the whole sentence is a huge advantage</blockquote>Maybe it is an advantage? But consider that even non-serial verbs can already radiate side effects: some can be undefined on certain inputs, some can create questions, and some (individual-level predicates) might even take scope. With that in mind, it's not a stretch to imagine that serials could take scope, too.

	~~[[Category:Proposals]]~~

Loekıa: Unbold some stuff

2024-10-24T15:03:02Z

Unbold some stuff

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:03, 24 October 2024
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	!Narrow scope		!Narrow scope
	\|-		\|-
	\|~~'''~~{{Deranize\|bu}}~~'''~~		\|{{Deranize\|bu}}
	\|{{T\|Bu tı tú poq}}		\|{{T\|Bu tı tú poq}}
	\|???		\|???
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	!Narrow scope		!Narrow scope
	\|-		\|-
	\|~~'''~~{{Deranize\|bu}}~~'''~~		\|{{Deranize\|bu}}
	\|{{T\|Tú poq nä bu tı hóa}}		\|{{T\|Tú poq nä bu tı hóa}}
	\|{{T\|Bu tı tú poq}}		\|{{T\|Bu tı tú poq}}

Laqme: Add Category:Proposals

2024-07-24T00:27:08Z

Add Category:Proposals

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:27, 24 July 2024
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	== Why not ==		== Why not ==
	[https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/334810940392341514/945302821178310736 uakci says:]<blockquote>i think, in fact, that serials being "unitary" verbs that don't radiate semantics outwards across the whole sentence is a huge advantage</blockquote>Maybe it is an advantage? But consider that even non-serial verbs can already radiate side effects: some can be undefined on certain inputs, some can create questions, and some (individual-level predicates) might even take scope. With that in mind, it's not a stretch to imagine that serials could take scope, too.		[https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/334810940392341514/945302821178310736 uakci says:]<blockquote>i think, in fact, that serials being "unitary" verbs that don't radiate semantics outwards across the whole sentence is a huge advantage</blockquote>Maybe it is an advantage? But consider that even non-serial verbs can already radiate side effects: some can be undefined on certain inputs, some can create questions, and some (individual-level predicates) might even take scope. With that in mind, it's not a stretch to imagine that serials could take scope, too.

			[[Category:Proposals]]

Loekıa: Propose this!

2024-07-09T02:19:36Z

Propose this!

New page

'''No Scope Creep''' is a proposal to remove the [[Scope#Scope creep|scope creep]] effect from the language.

<code>THE PROPOSAL:</code> Just remove it.

== Why ==
Here is how the language currently behaves with scope creep:
{| class="wikitable"
!
!Wide scope
!Narrow scope
|-
|'''No serial verb'''
|{{T|Sía raı nä shoe jí, ꝡä kuq súq hóa}}
|{{T|Shoe jí, ꝡä kuq súq sía raı}}
|-
|'''Serial verb'''
|{{T|Shoe kuq jí súq sía raı}}
|Not possible :(
|}
And here is how it could behave ''without'' scope creep:
{| class="wikitable"
!
!Wide scope
!Narrow scope
|-
|'''No serial verb'''
|{{T|Sía raı nä shoe jí, ꝡä kuq súq hóa}}
|{{T|Shoe jí, ꝡä kuq súq sía raı}}
|-
|'''Serial verb'''
|{{T|Sía raı nä shoe kuq jí súq hóa}}
|{{T|Shoe kuq jí súq sía raı}}
|}
This pattern feels clearer, and it makes serial verbs (one of Toaq's superpowers!) usable in more situations.

On that note, Toaq experts currently consider {{Deranize|bu}}, {{Deranize|ao}}, {{Deranize|he}}, etc. to exhibit a kind of scope creep as well:
{| class="wikitable"
!
!Wide scope
!Narrow scope
|-
|'''{{Deranize|bu}}'''
|{{T|Bu tı tú poq}}
|???
|-
|{{Deranize|ao}}
|{{T|Ao muaqsho tú shıtuaq}}
|???
|-
|{{Deranize|he}}
|{{T|He cho báq gochıq sía poq}}
|???
|}
Officially, there is no way to get a narrowly-scoped reading of the quantifiers. There is one proposal from [[User:Uakci|uakci]] that uses the syntax {{Deranize|he nä …}} for this purpose, but what if we just gave the above sentences narrowly-scoped readings?
{| class="wikitable"
!
!Wide scope
!Narrow scope
|-
|'''{{Deranize|bu}}'''
|{{T|Tú poq nä bu tı hóa}}
|{{T|Bu tı tú poq}}
|-
|{{Deranize|ao}}
|{{T|Tú shıtuaq nä ao muaqsho hóa}}
|{{T|Ao muaqsho tú shıtuaq}}
|-
|{{Deranize|he}}
|{{T|Sía poq nä he cho báq gochıq hóa}}
|{{T|He cho báq gochıq sía poq}}
|}
There you go. I really think narrow scope is a better default!

== Why not ==
[https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/334810940392341514/945302821178310736 uakci says:]<blockquote>i think, in fact, that serials being "unitary" verbs that don't radiate semantics outwards across the whole sentence is a huge advantage</blockquote>Maybe it is an advantage? But consider that even non-serial verbs can already radiate side effects: some can be undefined on certain inputs, some can create questions, and some (individual-level predicates) might even take scope. With that in mind, it's not a stretch to imagine that serials could take scope, too.