Open questions about official Toaq - Revision history

Laqme: Delta

2023-02-17T23:07:55Z

Delta

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:07, 17 February 2023
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	===Unresolved questions===		===Unresolved questions===

	==== ~~Syntax~~ ====		==== Vocabulary ====
	* Do {{T\|lu}} ~~constructs work as high adverbs~~ or ~~low adverbs when placed in t6 and t7?~~		* Will {{t\|kóm}} and {{t\|ré}} become official, or will there be some way to "unbind" / force an exophoric reading of {{t\|máq}} and {{t\|hóq}}, or should we use {{t\|ké}}?
	** Hoemai: "Undefined. I'm open to ~~suggestions.~~" ~~I suggest~~ "~~always low". [[User:Lynn~~\|~~Lynn]] ([[User talk:Lynn~~\|~~talk]]) 14:15~~, ~~1 July 2022 (UTC)~~
	* How is the animacy class of serial verbs determined?

	===~~= Vocabulary =~~===		===Resolved/outdated questions===
	* Will {{t\|kou}} and {{t\|ray}} become official, or will there be some way to "unbind" / force an exophoric reading of {{t\|maq}} and {{t\|hoq}}?

	~~==== Script ====~~		* How is the animacy class of serial verbs determined?
			** In Delta, serial verbs are simplified and adjectives come after "nouns", so "using the first verb always" seems to work. This is IMO hinted at by the cartouches surrounding the first verb in Derani. [[User:Lynn\|Lynn]] ([[User talk:Lynn\|talk]])
	* How is {{Tone\|7}} written in [[Hoelai]] v2?		* How is {{Tone\|7}} written in [[Hoelai]] v2?
	** Hoemai: "An overhaul of Hoelai is necessary."		** Hoemai: "An overhaul of Hoelai is necessary."
			** In Delta, there is no t7 and no Hoelai. See [[Derani]].
	~~===Resolved questions===~~

	* Does {{T\|shu}} quote only a word, or word + tone?		* Does {{T\|shu}} quote only a word, or word + tone?
	** '''Official answer:''' It quotes word + tone. https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/334810940392341514/892671069197062175		** '''Official answer:''' It quotes word + tone. https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/334810940392341514/892671069197062175

Laqme: one more

2022-07-01T14:17:10Z

one more

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:17, 1 July 2022
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	==== Vocabulary ====		==== Vocabulary ====
	* [https://toaqlanguage.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/miscellanea1/ Miscellanea 1] seemed to imply that (c 1 c) and (1 c) frames are going away. Will {{t\|noa, fuı, doa, nua, jea}} be redefined?
	** = Need feedback on [https://github.com/toaq/dictionary/pull/129 The Great Serial Simplification] PR. Right now that PR clears the "frame" field on these words without redefining them yet.
	* Will {{t\|kou}} and {{t\|ray}} become official, or will there be some way to "unbind" / force an exophoric reading of {{t\|maq}} and {{t\|hoq}}?		* Will {{t\|kou}} and {{t\|ray}} become official, or will there be some way to "unbind" / force an exophoric reading of {{t\|maq}} and {{t\|hoq}}?

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	* Do the reflexive anaphoric words {{t\|áq}}, {{t\|chéq}} refer to the subject of the current (sub)clause or do they always go back to the matrix clause? This is quite an important underspecification given that {{t\|áq}} ''must'' be used in place of other anaphoric predicates whenever possible. [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 13:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC)		* Do the reflexive anaphoric words {{t\|áq}}, {{t\|chéq}} refer to the subject of the current (sub)clause or do they always go back to the matrix clause? This is quite an important underspecification given that {{t\|áq}} ''must'' be used in place of other anaphoric predicates whenever possible. [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 13:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
	** '''Official answer:''' "Current clause."		** '''Official answer:''' "Current clause."
			* [https://toaqlanguage.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/miscellanea1/ Miscellanea 1] seemed to imply that (c 1 c) and (1 c) frames are going away. Will {{t\|noa, fuı, doa, nua, jea}} be redefined?
			** '''Official answer:''' 'The intended redefinition for noa at the time was "(c) is difficult to (2)", e.g. noa choa "(c) is difficult to pronounce". […] As for jea, doa, nua, I think the idea was to switch x2 and x3.'

Laqme: answers

2022-07-01T14:15:42Z

answers

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:15, 1 July 2022
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	==== Syntax ====		==== Syntax ====
	* Do {{T\|lu}} constructs work as high adverbs or low adverbs when placed in t6 and t7?		* Do {{T\|lu}} constructs work as high adverbs or low adverbs when placed in t6 and t7?
	* ~~In the sentence {{T\|She dûa jí mâı súq jí cy cy, jêo róu da.}}, does {{T\|róu}} access the inner content clause or the outer one?~~		** Hoemai: "Undefined. I'm open to suggestions." I suggest "always low". [[User:Lynn\|Lynn]] ([[User talk:Lynn\|talk]]) 14:15, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
	** I suspect that it’s the outer {{tone\|5}} phrase that [[wikipedia:~~c-command\|c-command]]s {{t\|róu}}, and not the inner phrase, which makes the whole phrase tautological~~. I ~~recommend {{t\|hoı}} in such scenarios~~. ~~[[user:uakci\|uakci]]<sup>[[user talk:uakci\|talk]]</sup>~~
	* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?
	** I am wont to say that Toaq anaphoras should only be allowed to go “back” – that is, that they must not be epiphoras. We could imagine {{t\|kuq còu nháo áq}} as an interesting usage where it’s the {{t\|còu}} phrase that takes subject/head position. [[~~user~~:~~uakci~~\|~~uakci~~]]~~<sup>~~[[~~user~~ talk:~~uakci~~\|talk]]~~</sup>~~
	* Does a genitival serial construction narrow down the x₂ of the head verb or fill it, removing it in the process? That is to say, does {{t\|chuq rỏehuı}} expand to ‘{{x}} eats junk food {{x}}’ or just ‘{{x}} eats junk food’? [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 21:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
	* Do the reflexive anaphoric words {{t\|áq}}, {{t\|chéq}} refer to the subject of the current (sub)clause or do they always go back to the matrix clause? This is quite an important underspecification given that {{t\|áq}} ''must'' be used in place of other anaphoric predicates whenever possible. [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 13:51, ~~17 May~~ 2022 (UTC)
	* How is the animacy class of serial verbs determined?		* How is the animacy class of serial verbs determined?

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	* [https://toaqlanguage.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/miscellanea1/ Miscellanea 1] seemed to imply that (c 1 c) and (1 c) frames are going away. Will {{t\|noa, fuı, doa, nua, jea}} be redefined?		* [https://toaqlanguage.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/miscellanea1/ Miscellanea 1] seemed to imply that (c 1 c) and (1 c) frames are going away. Will {{t\|noa, fuı, doa, nua, jea}} be redefined?
	** = Need feedback on [https://github.com/toaq/dictionary/pull/129 The Great Serial Simplification] PR. Right now that PR clears the "frame" field on these words without redefining them yet.		** = Need feedback on [https://github.com/toaq/dictionary/pull/129 The Great Serial Simplification] PR. Right now that PR clears the "frame" field on these words without redefining them yet.
	* Need feedback on [https://github.com/toaq/dictionary/pull/135 Add pronominal classes] PR.
	* Will {{t\|kou}} and {{t\|ray}} become official, or will there be some way to "unbind" / force an exophoric reading of {{t\|maq}} and {{t\|hoq}}?		* Will {{t\|kou}} and {{t\|ray}} become official, or will there be some way to "unbind" / force an exophoric reading of {{t\|maq}} and {{t\|hoq}}?

	==== Script ====		==== Script ====
	* How is {{Tone\|7}} written in [[Hoelai]] v2?		* How is {{Tone\|7}} written in [[Hoelai]] v2?
			** Hoemai: "An overhaul of Hoelai is necessary."

	===Resolved questions===		===Resolved questions===
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	* What is the scope of {{T\|sa}} in the sentence {{T\|Kaqgaı tu po sa saq sıa kıq da.}}?		* What is the scope of {{T\|sa}} in the sentence {{T\|Kaqgaı tu po sa saq sıa kıq da.}}?
	** '''Official answer:''' The {{T\|sa}} is part of an implicit subordinate clause and does not interact with the scopers on the top level. {{T\|po sa saq}} is an opaque predicate meaning "___ relates to some group of three individuals". https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/334810940392341514/550783714867675148		** '''Official answer:''' The {{T\|sa}} is part of an implicit subordinate clause and does not interact with the scopers on the top level. {{T\|po sa saq}} is an opaque predicate meaning "___ relates to some group of three individuals". https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/334810940392341514/550783714867675148
			* In the sentence {{T\|She dûa jí mâı súq jí cy cy, jêo róu da.}}, does {{T\|róu}} access the inner content clause or the outer one?
			** '''Official answer:''' "Outer."
			* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?
			** '''Official answer:''' "I think so. We probably want subjectless sentences to be able to be reflexive/reciprocal as well: Kuq còu áq 'there is talking to oneself'."
			* Does a genitival serial construction narrow down the x₂ of the head verb or fill it, removing it in the process? That is to say, does {{t\|chuq rỏehuı}} expand to ‘{{x}} eats junk food {{x}}’ or just ‘{{x}} eats junk food’? [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 21:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
			** '''Official answer:''' "The latter."
			* Do the reflexive anaphoric words {{t\|áq}}, {{t\|chéq}} refer to the subject of the current (sub)clause or do they always go back to the matrix clause? This is quite an important underspecification given that {{t\|áq}} ''must'' be used in place of other anaphoric predicates whenever possible. [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 13:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
			** '''Official answer:''' "Current clause."

Laqme: /* Unresolved questions */

2022-07-01T12:28:06Z

Unresolved questions

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:28, 1 July 2022
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	===Unresolved questions===		===Unresolved questions===

			==== Syntax ====
	* Do {{T\|lu}} constructs work as high adverbs or low adverbs when placed in t6 and t7?		* Do {{T\|lu}} constructs work as high adverbs or low adverbs when placed in t6 and t7?
	* In the sentence {{T\|She dûa jí mâı súq jí cy cy, jêo róu da.}}, does {{T\|róu}} access the inner content clause or the outer one?		* In the sentence {{T\|She dûa jí mâı súq jí cy cy, jêo róu da.}}, does {{T\|róu}} access the inner content clause or the outer one?
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	* Does a genitival serial construction narrow down the x₂ of the head verb or fill it, removing it in the process? That is to say, does {{t\|chuq rỏehuı}} expand to ‘{{x}} eats junk food {{x}}’ or just ‘{{x}} eats junk food’? [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 21:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)		* Does a genitival serial construction narrow down the x₂ of the head verb or fill it, removing it in the process? That is to say, does {{t\|chuq rỏehuı}} expand to ‘{{x}} eats junk food {{x}}’ or just ‘{{x}} eats junk food’? [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 21:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
	* Do the reflexive anaphoric words {{t\|áq}}, {{t\|chéq}} refer to the subject of the current (sub)clause or do they always go back to the matrix clause? This is quite an important underspecification given that {{t\|áq}} ''must'' be used in place of other anaphoric predicates whenever possible. [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 13:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC)		* Do the reflexive anaphoric words {{t\|áq}}, {{t\|chéq}} refer to the subject of the current (sub)clause or do they always go back to the matrix clause? This is quite an important underspecification given that {{t\|áq}} ''must'' be used in place of other anaphoric predicates whenever possible. [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 13:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
			* How is the animacy class of serial verbs determined?

			==== Vocabulary ====
			* [https://toaqlanguage.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/miscellanea1/ Miscellanea 1] seemed to imply that (c 1 c) and (1 c) frames are going away. Will {{t\|noa, fuı, doa, nua, jea}} be redefined?
			** = Need feedback on [https://github.com/toaq/dictionary/pull/129 The Great Serial Simplification] PR. Right now that PR clears the "frame" field on these words without redefining them yet.
			* Need feedback on [https://github.com/toaq/dictionary/pull/135 Add pronominal classes] PR.
			* Will {{t\|kou}} and {{t\|ray}} become official, or will there be some way to "unbind" / force an exophoric reading of {{t\|maq}} and {{t\|hoq}}?

			==== Script ====
			* How is {{Tone\|7}} written in [[Hoelai]] v2?

	===Resolved questions===		===Resolved questions===

Uakci: áq chéq

2022-05-17T13:51:48Z

áq chéq

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:51, 17 May 2022
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	** I am wont to say that Toaq anaphoras should only be allowed to go “back” – that is, that they must not be epiphoras. We could imagine {{t\|kuq còu nháo áq}} as an interesting usage where it’s the {{t\|còu}} phrase that takes subject/head position. [[user:uakci\|uakci]]<sup>[[user talk:uakci\|talk]]</sup>		** I am wont to say that Toaq anaphoras should only be allowed to go “back” – that is, that they must not be epiphoras. We could imagine {{t\|kuq còu nháo áq}} as an interesting usage where it’s the {{t\|còu}} phrase that takes subject/head position. [[user:uakci\|uakci]]<sup>[[user talk:uakci\|talk]]</sup>
	* Does a genitival serial construction narrow down the x₂ of the head verb or fill it, removing it in the process? That is to say, does {{t\|chuq rỏehuı}} expand to ‘{{x}} eats junk food {{x}}’ or just ‘{{x}} eats junk food’? [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 21:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)		* Does a genitival serial construction narrow down the x₂ of the head verb or fill it, removing it in the process? That is to say, does {{t\|chuq rỏehuı}} expand to ‘{{x}} eats junk food {{x}}’ or just ‘{{x}} eats junk food’? [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 21:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
			* Do the reflexive anaphoric words {{t\|áq}}, {{t\|chéq}} refer to the subject of the current (sub)clause or do they always go back to the matrix clause? This is quite an important underspecification given that {{t\|áq}} ''must'' be used in place of other anaphoric predicates whenever possible. [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 13:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

	===Resolved questions===		===Resolved questions===

Uakci at 21:50, 13 May 2022

2022-05-13T21:50:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:50, 13 May 2022
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	* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?		* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?
	** I am wont to say that Toaq anaphoras should only be allowed to go “back” – that is, that they must not be epiphoras. We could imagine {{t\|kuq còu nháo áq}} as an interesting usage where it’s the {{t\|còu}} phrase that takes subject/head position. [[user:uakci\|uakci]]<sup>[[user talk:uakci\|talk]]</sup>		** I am wont to say that Toaq anaphoras should only be allowed to go “back” – that is, that they must not be epiphoras. We could imagine {{t\|kuq còu nháo áq}} as an interesting usage where it’s the {{t\|còu}} phrase that takes subject/head position. [[user:uakci\|uakci]]<sup>[[user talk:uakci\|talk]]</sup>
			* Does a genitival serial construction narrow down the x₂ of the head verb or fill it, removing it in the process? That is to say, does {{t\|chuq rỏehuı}} expand to ‘{{x}} eats junk food {{x}}’ or just ‘{{x}} eats junk food’? [[user:uakci\|uakci]] 21:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

	===Resolved questions===		===Resolved questions===

Uakci at 09:52, 20 February 2022

2022-02-20T09:52:26Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:52, 20 February 2022
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	** I suspect that it’s the outer {{tone\|5}} phrase that [[wikipedia:c-command\|c-command]]s {{t\|róu}}, and not the inner phrase, which makes the whole phrase tautological. I recommend {{t\|hoı}} in such scenarios. [[user:uakci\|uakci]]<sup>[[user talk:uakci\|talk]]</sup>		** I suspect that it’s the outer {{tone\|5}} phrase that [[wikipedia:c-command\|c-command]]s {{t\|róu}}, and not the inner phrase, which makes the whole phrase tautological. I recommend {{t\|hoı}} in such scenarios. [[user:uakci\|uakci]]<sup>[[user talk:uakci\|talk]]</sup>
	* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?		* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?
			** I am wont to say that Toaq anaphoras should only be allowed to go “back” – that is, that they must not be epiphoras. We could imagine {{t\|kuq còu nháo áq}} as an interesting usage where it’s the {{t\|còu}} phrase that takes subject/head position. [[user:uakci\|uakci]]<sup>[[user talk:uakci\|talk]]</sup>

	===Resolved questions===		===Resolved questions===

Uakci: seecum &

2022-02-19T16:11:46Z

seecum &

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:11, 19 February 2022
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	* Do {{T\|lu}} constructs work as high adverbs or low adverbs when placed in t6 and t7?		* Do {{T\|lu}} constructs work as high adverbs or low adverbs when placed in t6 and t7?
	* In the sentence {{T\|She dûa jí mâı súq jí cy cy, jêo róu da.}}, does {{T\|róu}} access the inner content clause or the outer one?		* In the sentence {{T\|She dûa jí mâı súq jí cy cy, jêo róu da.}}, does {{T\|róu}} access the inner content clause or the outer one?
			** I suspect that it’s the outer {{tone\|5}} phrase that [[wikipedia:c-command\|c-command]]s {{t\|róu}}, and not the inner phrase, which makes the whole phrase tautological. I recommend {{t\|hoı}} in such scenarios. [[user:uakci\|uakci]]<sup>[[user talk:uakci\|talk]]</sup>
	* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?		* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?

Hoaqgio: Changed wording from "edge cases" to "open questions"

2021-10-10T19:26:16Z

Changed wording from "edge cases" to "open questions"

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:26, 10 October 2021
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	Here is a list of ~~edge cases~~ that have ~~come up~~, along with their resolutions if they are known. This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.		Here is a list of questions that have been asked about official Toaq for which the reference grammar does not provide a clear answer, along with their resolutions if they are known. This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.

	===Unresolved ~~edge cases~~===		===Unresolved questions===

	* Do {{T\|lu}} constructs work as high adverbs or low adverbs when placed in t6 and t7?		* Do {{T\|lu}} constructs work as high adverbs or low adverbs when placed in t6 and t7?
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	* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?		* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?

	===Resolved ~~edge cases~~===		===Resolved questions===

	* Does {{T\|shu}} quote only a word, or word + tone?		* Does {{T\|shu}} quote only a word, or word + tone?

Hoaqgio: Hoaqgio moved page Edge cases to Open questions about official Toaq: Some open questions are quite central and not edge cases at all

2021-10-10T19:25:06Z

Hoaqgio moved page Edge cases to Open questions about official Toaq: Some open questions are quite central and not edge cases at all

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:25, 10 October 2021
(No difference)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:11, 19 February 2022
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	* Do {{T\|lu}} constructs work as high adverbs or low adverbs when placed in t6 and t7?		* Do {{T\|lu}} constructs work as high adverbs or low adverbs when placed in t6 and t7?
	* In the sentence {{T\|She dûa jí mâı súq jí cy cy, jêo róu da.}}, does {{T\|róu}} access the inner content clause or the outer one?		* In the sentence {{T\|She dûa jí mâı súq jí cy cy, jêo róu da.}}, does {{T\|róu}} access the inner content clause or the outer one?
			** I suspect that it’s the outer {{tone\|5}} phrase that [[wikipedia:c-command\|c-command]]s {{t\|róu}}, and not the inner phrase, which makes the whole phrase tautological. I recommend {{t\|hoı}} in such scenarios. [[user:uakci\|uakci]]<sup>[[user talk:uakci\|talk]]</sup>
	* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?		* Can {{T\|áq}} and {{T\|chéq}} be used before the x1 slot, e.g. are sentences like {{T\|Kuq còu áq nháo}} valid?