Small Grammar Update - Revision history

Laqme: Delta

2023-02-17T19:26:12Z

Delta

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:26, 17 February 2023
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	~~An often-quoted~~ 2020 Discord message by Hoemai announcing a grammar update. https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/311223912044167168/726562475012522096		A 2020 Discord message by Hoemai announcing a grammar update for [[Toaq Beta]]. https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/311223912044167168/726562475012522096

			In modern-as-of-2023 Toaq Delta, all [[adverbial]]s are "low-attaching", and the old tones {{Tone\|6}}<sup>γ</sup> and {{Tone\|7}}<sup>γ</sup> have indeed been merged into {{Done\|4}}<sup>δ</sup>.

	<blockquote>A small update on the grammar: I have decided to simplify adverbials. Together with my recent conclusion that Toaq does (or should) have a TP, this solves all the previously unsolvable problems.		<blockquote>A small update on the grammar: I have decided to simplify adverbials. Together with my recent conclusion that Toaq does (or should) have a TP, this solves all the previously unsolvable problems.
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	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

			<!--
	=== Current status ===		=== Current status ===
	The low—high distinction is official as of [[Toaq γ]] and is now referred to by the moniker [https://toaq.net/refgram/17/ Type I and II adverbials]. Only certain verbs (modals, {{t\|bũ}}, tense) can function as Type II adverbs.		The low—high distinction is official as of [[Toaq γ]] and is now referred to by the moniker [https://toaq.net/refgram/17/ Type I and II adverbials]. Only certain verbs (modals, {{t\|bũ}}, tense) can function as Type II adverbs.
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	In Lojban terms, the (default) meaning of {{Tone\|7}} has moved from <code>soi'a</code> to <code>poi'a</code>. Even if you're not a Lojbanist, [https://solpahi.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/noiha/ this blog post] by Hoemai about their attempt to add useful adverbs to that language might help you understand the situation of Toaq adverbs.		In Lojban terms, the (default) meaning of {{Tone\|7}} has moved from <code>soi'a</code> to <code>poi'a</code>. Even if you're not a Lojbanist, [https://solpahi.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/noiha/ this blog post] by Hoemai about their attempt to add useful adverbs to that language might help you understand the situation of Toaq adverbs.
			-->

Uakci: /* Current status */

2022-02-06T23:35:26Z

Current status

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:35, 6 February 2022
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	In any case, this would put the overall progress at 90+%, so I’m going with that instead of the frustrating-to-formalize (and hard-to-use) status quo.		In any case, this would put the overall progress at 90+%, so I’m going with that instead of the frustrating-to-formalize (and hard-to-use) status quo.
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

			=== Current status ===
			The low—high distinction is official as of [[Toaq γ]] and is now referred to by the moniker [https://toaq.net/refgram/17/ Type I and II adverbials]. Only certain verbs (modals, {{t\|bũ}}, tense) can function as Type II adverbs.

	== Discussion ==		== Discussion ==

Laqme at 23:48, 15 September 2021

2021-09-15T23:48:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:48, 15 September 2021
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	However, this behavior will not extend to tense-like predicates, where not presently asserting something is the whole point — because "You dance and do so in-the-past-ly" is never meaningful or useful, and we probably want to keep things like '''bũ''' and '''pũ''' around.		However, this behavior will not extend to tense-like predicates, where not presently asserting something is the whole point — because "You dance and do so in-the-past-ly" is never meaningful or useful, and we probably want to keep things like '''bũ''' and '''pũ''' around.

	In Lojban terms, the (default) meaning of ~~'''õ'''~~ has moved from <code>soi'a</code> to <code>poi'a</code>. Even if you're not a Lojbanist, [https://solpahi.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/noiha/ this blog post] by Hoemai about their attempt to add useful adverbs to that language might help you understand the situation of Toaq adverbs.		In Lojban terms, the (default) meaning of {{Tone\|7}} has moved from <code>soi'a</code> to <code>poi'a</code>. Even if you're not a Lojbanist, [https://solpahi.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/noiha/ this blog post] by Hoemai about their attempt to add useful adverbs to that language might help you understand the situation of Toaq adverbs.

Laqme: Use Tone template

2021-09-15T15:36:19Z

Use Tone template

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:36, 15 September 2021
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	<blockquote>A small update on the grammar: I have decided to simplify adverbials. Together with my recent conclusion that Toaq does (or should) have a TP, this solves all the previously unsolvable problems.		<blockquote>A small update on the grammar: I have decided to simplify adverbials. Together with my recent conclusion that Toaq does (or should) have a TP, this solves all the previously unsolvable problems.

	What this means is that there will simply be two types of adverbs, depending on where they attach. For now, the low-attaching adverbials are those formed with ~~:t6:~~ and ~~:t7:~~ , while the high-attaching ones need a non-tonal head (ıq, for instance). Low adverbs have lower scope than quantifiers and they don’t scope over each other. High adverbs work like the old adverbs. The placement of all adverbials is also simplified so that low adverbs (x) must appear either right after the verb or after the arguments (V x SO x), while high adverbs (y) are sentence-final but can be moved to be prenex (y bı V S O y).		What this means is that there will simply be two types of adverbs, depending on where they attach. For now, the low-attaching adverbials are those formed with {{Tone\|6}} and {{Tone\|7}}, while the high-attaching ones need a non-tonal head (ıq, for instance). Low adverbs have lower scope than quantifiers and they don’t scope over each other. High adverbs work like the old adverbs. The placement of all adverbials is also simplified so that low adverbs (x) must appear either right after the verb or after the arguments (V x SO x), while high adverbs (y) are sentence-final but can be moved to be prenex (y bı V S O y).

	I also looked into the possibility of merging ~~:t6:~~ and ~~:t7:~~ so that one of them could be used for high adverbs instead, but this isn’t possible without introducing a terminator, as far as I can tell (let me know if you can think of another solution).		I also looked into the possibility of merging {{Tone\|6}} and {{Tone\|7}} so that one of them could be used for high adverbs instead, but this isn’t possible without introducing a terminator, as far as I can tell (let me know if you can think of another solution).

	In any case, this would put the overall progress at 90+%, so I’m going with that instead of the frustrating-to-formalize (and hard-to-use) status quo.		In any case, this would put the overall progress at 90+%, so I’m going with that instead of the frustrating-to-formalize (and hard-to-use) status quo.

Laqme at 11:40, 3 September 2021

2021-09-03T11:40:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:40, 3 September 2021
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	== Discussion ==		== Discussion ==
	A '''low adverb''' is one that only adorns the claim it's in, but doesn't stop it from being asserted. An old-school '''high adverb''' actually wrapped the whole claim in some predicate, which had the power to stop it from being asserted.		A '''low adverb''' is one that only adorns the claim it's in, but doesn't stop it from being asserted. An old-school '''high adverb''' actually wrapped the whole claim in some predicate, which had the power to stop it from being asserted.

			It has since been announced that there will be [https://toaqlanguage.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/miscellanea1/ no actual word like “ıq”], and maybe no high adverbs at all (instead you just serialize them into the main verb, or ''make'' them the main verb).

	The update means that '''Sủaq súq dẽ da''' now means "You dance (and do so) beautifully", whereas it used to be "It is beautiful that you (at some point somewhere) dance", which unintuitively did not assert any dancing.		The update means that '''Sủaq súq dẽ da''' now means "You dance (and do so) beautifully", whereas it used to be "It is beautiful that you (at some point somewhere) dance", which unintuitively did not assert any dancing.

	It has since been announced that there will be [https://toaqlanguage.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/miscellanea1/ no actual word like “ıq”], and maybe no high adverbs at all (instead you just serialize them into the main verb, or ''make'' them the main verb).

	However, this behavior will not extend to tense-like predicates, where not presently asserting something is the whole point — because "You dance and do so in-the-past-ly" is never meaningful or useful, and we probably want to keep things like '''bũ''' and '''pũ''' around.		However, this behavior will not extend to tense-like predicates, where not presently asserting something is the whole point — because "You dance and do so in-the-past-ly" is never meaningful or useful, and we probably want to keep things like '''bũ''' and '''pũ''' around.

	In Lojban terms, the (default) meaning of '''õ''' has moved from <code>soi'a</code> to <code>poi'a</code>. Even if you're not a Lojbanist, [https://solpahi.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/noiha/ this blog post] by Hoemai about their attempt to add useful adverbs to that language might help you understand the situation of Toaq adverbs.		In Lojban terms, the (default) meaning of '''õ''' has moved from <code>soi'a</code> to <code>poi'a</code>. Even if you're not a Lojbanist, [https://solpahi.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/noiha/ this blog post] by Hoemai about their attempt to add useful adverbs to that language might help you understand the situation of Toaq adverbs.

Laqme: Created page with "An often-quoted 2020 Discord message by Hoemai announcing a grammar update. https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/311223912044167168/726562475012522096
..."

2021-09-03T11:22:06Z

Created page with "An often-quoted 2020 Discord message by Hoemai announcing a grammar update. https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/311223912044167168/726562475012522096 <blockquote>..."

New page

An often-quoted 2020 Discord message by Hoemai announcing a grammar update. https://discord.com/channels/311223912044167168/311223912044167168/726562475012522096

<blockquote>A small update on the grammar: I have decided to simplify adverbials. Together with my recent conclusion that Toaq does (or should) have a TP, this solves all the previously unsolvable problems.

What this means is that there will simply be two types of adverbs, depending on where they attach. For now, the low-attaching adverbials are those formed with :t6: and :t7: , while the high-attaching ones need a non-tonal head (ıq, for instance). Low adverbs have lower scope than quantifiers and they don’t scope over each other. High adverbs work like the old adverbs. The placement of all adverbials is also simplified so that low adverbs (x) must appear either right after the verb or after the arguments (V x SO x), while high adverbs (y) are sentence-final but can be moved to be prenex (y bı V S O y).

I also looked into the possibility of merging :t6: and :t7: so that one of them could be used for high adverbs instead, but this isn’t possible without introducing a terminator, as far as I can tell (let me know if you can think of another solution).

In any case, this would put the overall progress at 90+%, so I’m going with that instead of the frustrating-to-formalize (and hard-to-use) status quo.
</blockquote>

== Discussion ==
A '''low adverb''' is one that only adorns the claim it's in, but doesn't stop it from being asserted. An old-school '''high adverb''' actually wrapped the whole claim in some predicate, which had the power to stop it from being asserted.

The update means that '''Sủaq súq dẽ da''' now means "You dance (and do so) beautifully", whereas it used to be "It is beautiful that you (at some point somewhere) dance", which unintuitively did not assert any dancing.

It has since been announced that there will be [https://toaqlanguage.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/miscellanea1/ no actual word like “ıq”], and maybe no high adverbs at all (instead you just serialize them into the main verb, or ''make'' them the main verb).

However, this behavior will not extend to tense-like predicates, where not presently asserting something is the whole point — because "You dance and do so in-the-past-ly" is never meaningful or useful, and we probably want to keep things like '''bũ''' and '''pũ''' around.

In Lojban terms, the (default) meaning of '''õ''' has moved from <code>soi'a</code> to <code>poi'a</code>. Even if you're not a Lojbanist, [https://solpahi.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/noiha/ this blog post] by Hoemai about their attempt to add useful adverbs to that language might help you understand the situation of Toaq adverbs.