User:Laqme/éru - Revision history

Uakci: Uakci moved page User:Lynn/éru to User:Laqme/éru: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "Lynn" to "Laqme"

2024-04-24T19:48:50Z

Uakci moved page User:Lynn/éru to User:Laqme/éru: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "Lynn" to "Laqme"

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:48, 24 April 2024
(No difference)

Ultlang: delta word count..

2023-09-10T19:42:26Z

delta word count..

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:42, 10 September 2023
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	It side-steps around the issue with a {{t\|rú+móq}} translation: we don't want to ask which age it is that both Mary and Jane have.		It side-steps around the issue with a {{t\|rú+móq}} translation: we don't want to ask which age it is that both Mary and Jane have.

	In the process, it has become a command/wish instead of a question. It's also 17 words long and sounds like you're a robot alien.		In the process, it has become a command/wish instead of a question. It's also 18 words long and sounds like you're a robot alien.

	== {{t\|éru}} ==		== {{t\|éru}} ==

Uakci: Uakci moved page User:Lynn/eru to User:Lynn/éru: δ

2023-09-10T19:38:47Z

Uakci moved page User:Lynn/eru to User:Lynn/éru: δ

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:38, 10 September 2023
(No difference)

Uakci: deltaify

2023-09-10T19:38:19Z

deltaify

Laqme at 10:30, 8 July 2022

2022-07-08T10:30:46Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:30, 8 July 2022
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	== ~~Scope~~ ==		This page lists some motivating examples for the word {{t\|eru}} in Toadua:

			<blockquote>{{t\|eru:}} connective: 'X and Y' but bubbles up to illocution-phrase level rather than clause scope</blockquote>

			== Example: scope ==
	Sometimes {{t\|ru}} doesn't expand out far enough:		Sometimes {{t\|ru}} doesn't expand out far enough:

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	But this sentence requires some planning and acrobatics.		But this sentence requires some planning and acrobatics.

	== ~~Multi-target~~ questions ==		== Example: questions ==
	Check out this translation of "How old are Mary and Jane?" in the spreadsheet:		Check out this translation of "How old are Mary and Jane?" in the spreadsheet:

Laqme at 10:28, 8 July 2022

2022-07-08T10:28:28Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:28, 8 July 2022
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	{{Example\|Gẻone hı mí Mẻrı {{orange\|eru}} mí Jẻıny moq?\|How old are Mary and Jane?<br><em>(How old is Mary, and how old is Jane?)</em>}}		{{Example\|Gẻone hı mí Mẻrı {{orange\|eru}} mí Jẻıny moq?\|How old are Mary and Jane?<br><em>(How old is Mary, and how old is Jane?)</em>}}

			== era, ero…? ==

			I don't think these are as useful (which is why I deleted {{t\|eaı}}).

			If {{t\|erV}} connects illocution acts, then {{t\|era…da}} would mean “I hereby assert this OR I hereby assert that, or I assert both facts”. Or, {{t\|ero…moq}} would mean “I hereby ask this, XOR I hereby ask that”.

			That's pretty uncooperative of me: which is it that I'm asserting or asking? Like, do I expect the listener to guess?

			It doesn't seem to make much sense to connect our own illocutionary acts with any other logical connectives.

Laqme: Created page with "== Scope == Sometimes {{t|ru}} doesn't expand out far enough: {{Example|Bủ shỏe nháo fâ jí ru súq ní rào baq lỏachaq da.|They don't permit that me and you come here on Sundays.}} Maybe we wanted this sentence to mean: “I'm not allowed, and you're not allowed”. But as-is it only says that ''us both going'' here on Sundays is disallowed, because {{t|ru}} expands into the {{Tone|5}} scope. Prenex-rephrasing of such a sentence can be clunky. We might t..."

2022-07-08T10:23:07Z

Created page with "== Scope == Sometimes {{t|ru}} doesn't expand out far enough: {{Example|Bủ shỏe nháo fâ jí ru súq ní rào baq lỏachaq da.|They don't permit that me and you come here on Sundays.}} Maybe we wanted this sentence to mean: “I'm not allowed, and you're not allowed”. But as-is it only says that ''us both going'' here on Sundays is disallowed, because {{t|ru}} expands into the {{Tone|5}} scope. Prenex-rephrasing of such a sentence can be clunky. We might t..."

New page

== Scope ==
Sometimes {{t|ru}} doesn't expand out far enough:

{{Example|Bủ shỏe nháo fâ jí ru súq ní rào baq lỏachaq da.|They don't permit that me and you come here on Sundays.}}

Maybe we wanted this sentence to mean: “I'm not allowed, and you're not allowed”. But as-is it only says that ''us both going'' here on Sundays is disallowed, because {{t|ru}} expands into the {{Tone|5}} [[scope]].

Prenex-rephrasing of such a sentence can be clunky. We might try:

{{Example|{{orange|Jí ru súq bı,}} bủ shỏe nháo fâ {{orange|fúy}} ní rào baq lỏachaq da.|For both me and you, they don't allow fúy to come here on Sundays.}}

Ack, that doesn't work, {{t|fúy}} gets overwritten by {{t|nháo}} on the way. OK, we can say this:

{{Example|{{orange|Lủ}} bủ shỏe nháo fâ {{orange|hóa}} ní rào baq lỏachaq {{orange|ky}} jí ru súq da.|Such that they don't permit hóa to come here on Sundays, are both me and you.}}

But this sentence requires some planning and acrobatics.

== Multi-target questions ==
Check out this translation of "How old are Mary and Jane?" in the spreadsheet:

{{Example|😬 Tushı mẻa mí Mẻrı roı mí Jẻıny bı tủa dủa súq jí gêo zé nhè hı ba|For each one among Mary and Jane: may you tell me how old she is.}}

It side-steps around the issue with a {{t|ru+moq}} translation: we don't want to ask which age it is that both Mary and Jane have.

In the process, it has become a command/wish instead of a question. It's also 17 words long and sounds like you're a robot alien.

== eru ==

If we had a version of {{t|X ru Y}} that bubbles up to the illocution phrase and makes two illocution acts, one for “the sentence if we had said X” and one for “the sentence if we had said Y”, we could use it to solve these different-looking problems:

{{Example|Bủ shỏe nháo fâ jí {{orange|eru}} súq ní rào baq lỏachaq da.|They don't permit that me and you come here on Sundays. (I'm not allowed and you're not allowed.)}}

{{Example|Gẻone hı mí Mẻrı {{orange|eru}} mí Jẻıny moq?|How old are Mary and Jane? (How old is Mary, and how old is Jane?)}}