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Open problems in translation: Difference between revisions
Open problems in translation (view source)
Revision as of 10:12, 14 October 2021
, 10:12, 14 October 2021added "very large thorn" problem
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==Sentences that have not been translated== | ==Sentences that have not been translated== | ||
==="a very large thorn"=== | |||
This translation exercise is a phrase rather than a sentence. The phrase is "very large thorn", and although it seems like a perfect use of Toaq's serial predicates, it is not possible to achieve the desired meaning through official serial behavior alone. Here are some attempts, beginning with two attempts that use official serial behavior (and fail to achieve the correct meaning): | |||
* {{T|jaq sao choıbeq}} This is the obvious attempt, but it fails because serials are right-grouping. The serial groups as {{T|jaq (sao choıbeq)}}, and so refers to something that is "very much a large thorn". This is different than the intended meaning in that we are not modifying the largeness but rather modifying the "large thorn"-ness. Something which is undeniably large but only sort of a thorn would be a very large thorn, but would not be "very much a large thorn". And arguably, a *gigantic* thorn would not be "very much a large thorn" either, since it's too large to be such a great match for the description "large thorn". | |||
* {{T|choıbeq jaq sao}} This solution groups as {{T|choıbeq (jaq sao)}}, which has {{T|jaq sao}} grouped together as it should be. However, the modifier ends up on the right side of the serialization with {{T|choıbeq}}, where it cannot take on attributive adjective semantics as per official Toaq serial rules. | |||
* {{T|choıbeq jäq sao pè baq choıbeq cy}} This attempt translates literally as "thorn that is very large for a thorn". This can't really fail to have the right meaning, but it's way too long. | |||
* {{T|choıbeq jäq sao cy}} This attempt omits the explicit standard from the adjective "very large". | |||
* {{T|jaq sao pı choıbeq}} This attempt uses an experimental particle {{T|pı}} whose behavior is to stratify the serialization mechanism into two layers: first the things between the {{T|pı}}'s are serialized, and then the results of those serializations are serialized. {{T|a b c pı d e f g pı h}} groups as {{T|(a b c) (d e f g) (h)}}. The correct semantics are achieved here (via experimental grammar). | |||
==="It's as though..."=== | ==="It's as though..."=== | ||