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Open problems in translation: Difference between revisions
Open problems in translation (view source)
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This page gives a list of English sentences and phrases for which there is no widely accepted Toaq translation. The list is broken into three sections: sentences for which no accurate translation is known at all, sentences for which accurate translations are known but are impractically long or unacceptable for some other reason, and sentences which used to appear in one of these two categories but for which acceptable translations have since been found. Each unsolved sentence is accompanied by some discussion of the difficulty, possibly including some incomplete or not widely accepted solutions. | |||
The existence or nonexistence of a solution is determined relative to official grammatical features of Toaq | The existence or nonexistence of a solution is determined relative to official grammatical features of Toaq. Unofficial predicates are allowed, but sufficiently technical utility predicates should be considered grammatical features in spirit. | ||
==Sentences that have not been translated== | ==Sentences that have not been translated== | ||
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==Sentences that have not been translated well== | ==Sentences that have not been translated well== | ||
==="a very large thorn"=== | |||
This translation exercise is a phrase rather than a sentence. The phrase is "very large thorn", and although it seems like a perfect use of Toaq's serial predicates, it is not possible to achieve the desired meaning through official serial behavior alone. Here are some attempts, beginning with two attempts that use official serial behavior (and fail to achieve the correct meaning): | |||
* {{T|jaq sao choıbeq}} This is the obvious attempt, but it fails because serials are right-grouping. The serial groups as {{T|jaq (sao choıbeq)}}, and so refers to something that is "very much a large thorn". This is different than the intended meaning in that we are not modifying the largeness but rather modifying the "large thorn"-ness. Something which is undeniably large but only sort of a thorn would be a very large thorn, but would not be "very much a large thorn". And arguably, a *gigantic* thorn would not be "very much a large thorn" either, since it's too large to be such a great match for the description "large thorn". | |||
* {{T|choıbeq jaq sao}} This solution groups as {{T|choıbeq (jaq sao)}}, which has {{T|jaq sao}} grouped together as it should be. However, the modifier ends up on the right side of the serialization with {{T|choıbeq}}, where it cannot take on attributive adjective semantics as per official Toaq serial rules. | |||
* {{T|choıbeq jäq sao pè baq choıbeq cy}} This attempt translates literally as "thorn that is very large for a thorn". This can't really fail to have the right meaning, but it's way too long. | |||
* {{T|choıbeq jäq sao cy}} This attempt omits the explicit standard from the adjective "very large". | |||
* {{T|jaq sao pı choıbeq}} This attempt uses an experimental particle {{T|pı}} whose behavior is to stratify the serialization mechanism into two layers: first the things between the {{T|pı}}'s are serialized, and then the results of those serializations are serialized. {{T|a b c pı d e f g pı h}} groups as {{T|(a b c) (d e f g) (h)}}. The correct semantics are achieved here (via experimental grammar). | |||
==="I know the names of many things."=== | ==="I know the names of many things."=== | ||
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Precise translations: | Precise translations: | ||
* {{T|Sa puı tu shı mëa púı bı, dua jí chûa hı shí da.}} This is a direct translation of the above semantics. It is much longer than the English and requires a fair bit of forethought. | * {{T|Sa puı tu shı mëa púı bı, dua jí chûa hı shí da.}} This is a direct translation of the above semantics into official Toaq. It is much longer than the English and requires a fair bit of forethought. | ||
* {{T|Sa puı bı, dua jí mû chua tu shı mea púı hı da.}} This is basically the same as the previous sentence, except that it allows {{T|tu}} to scope over {{T|hı}} in order to move the phrase {{T|tu shı mea púı}} inside the subordinate clause. | * {{T|Sa puı bı, dua jí mû chua tu shı mea púı hı da.}} This is basically the same as the previous sentence, except that it allows {{T|tu}} to scope over {{T|hı}} in order to move the phrase {{T|tu shı mea púı}} inside the subordinate clause. | ||
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* {{T|Chuadua jí sa puı da.}} This example uses the predicate {{T|chuadua}} to route around the distributivity issue. It is not clear how this would generalize to other similar examples (such as "I know the ages of many people"). | * {{T|Chuadua jí sa puı da.}} This example uses the predicate {{T|chuadua}} to route around the distributivity issue. It is not clear how this would generalize to other similar examples (such as "I know the ages of many people"). | ||
* {{T|Puı tuyq düa jí chûa hóa hı da.}} Uses an unofficial quantifier {{T|tuyq}} which takes the union of all things satisfying a certain property. (Note that the union itself may not satisfy the property that its constituents do.) | |||
* {{T|Dua jí tôıtuq chua hı sa puı da.}} should work, but requires an unnaturalistic turn of phrase. | * {{T|Dua jí tôıtuq chua hı sa puı da.}} should work, but requires an unnaturalistic turn of phrase. | ||
* {{T|Dua jí chûabo dujı sa puı hı da.}} uses {{t|dujı|focus marker: for every aggregate amongst X, unboxed, …|#cLo4JaQT5}}. | |||
Imprecise translations: | Imprecise translations: | ||
* {{T|Hıdua chua jí sa puı da.}} | * {{T|Hıdua chua jí sa puı da.}} This solution assumes a nondistributive {{T|chua}} whose meaning would be something like "___ are collectively the names of ___". This solutions does not directly claim that I know which name is the name of which thing; that detail would be left for the audience to infer from context. | ||
==Solved sentences== | ==Solved sentences== | ||
No open problems have been solved since the creation of this page. | No open problems have been solved since the creation of this page. | ||